1 00:00:08,960 --> 00:00:02,360 is and how people respond to them please 2 00:00:10,759 --> 00:00:08,970 welcome Nancy good afternoon as I was 3 00:00:12,440 --> 00:00:10,769 saying I spent the last days not 4 00:00:14,150 --> 00:00:12,450 thinking about what I was going to say 5 00:00:17,120 --> 00:00:14,160 but we're hurting for what I should not 6 00:00:20,480 --> 00:00:17,130 say not to waste time and I hope I go 7 00:00:22,640 --> 00:00:20,490 well here anyways I thought that I 8 00:00:24,439 --> 00:00:22,650 cannot bring you the tale data because 9 00:00:26,839 --> 00:00:24,449 that would not be possible with the time 10 00:00:28,910 --> 00:00:26,849 we have but you need context you need 11 00:00:30,589 --> 00:00:28,920 context to follow what I'm doing and why 12 00:00:33,139 --> 00:00:30,599 I'm doing and I think that's what brings 13 00:00:35,569 --> 00:00:33,149 value here first thing I want to share 14 00:00:38,959 --> 00:00:35,579 with you is that when I was quite young 15 00:00:41,959 --> 00:00:38,969 maybe around 7 8 years old I had an 16 00:00:46,010 --> 00:00:41,969 out-of-body experience I have had a few 17 00:00:47,630 --> 00:00:46,020 up to that moment but I didn't mind much 18 00:00:50,180 --> 00:00:47,640 about them for me they were just another 19 00:00:53,119 --> 00:00:50,190 experience but I happened to see 20 00:00:55,910 --> 00:00:53,129 something that I had no way of knowing a 21 00:00:58,970 --> 00:00:55,920 relative of mine was in some paulo city 22 00:01:01,760 --> 00:00:58,980 in a hospital I didn't know he was ill I 23 00:01:03,889 --> 00:01:01,770 didn't know how some Paulo looked like I 24 00:01:05,929 --> 00:01:03,899 have never been to a hospital I am from 25 00:01:09,080 --> 00:01:05,939 a very small place I have we didn't have 26 00:01:11,240 --> 00:01:09,090 a movie theater I have never been to a 27 00:01:13,550 --> 00:01:11,250 library up to that time we didn't have a 28 00:01:16,070 --> 00:01:13,560 TV at home and there goes but anyway I 29 00:01:18,950 --> 00:01:16,080 had no way to imagine that and I saw in 30 00:01:21,109 --> 00:01:18,960 details the room where he was recording 31 00:01:23,420 --> 00:01:21,119 and everything and just that just stayed 32 00:01:25,840 --> 00:01:23,430 knowing the background of my mind I just 33 00:01:29,210 --> 00:01:25,850 came later to know what I saw was real 34 00:01:32,179 --> 00:01:29,220 and what the surgery was and so forth I 35 00:01:34,460 --> 00:01:32,189 have had some experiences other than the 36 00:01:36,289 --> 00:01:34,470 out-of-body experience that sometimes I 37 00:01:39,649 --> 00:01:36,299 would feel for example somebody talking 38 00:01:42,260 --> 00:01:39,659 to me and I would look nobody there I 39 00:01:44,690 --> 00:01:42,270 was never scared of the talking but I 40 00:01:46,190 --> 00:01:44,700 was scared of nobody there because I 41 00:01:48,289 --> 00:01:46,200 couldn't understand what was going on 42 00:01:50,719 --> 00:01:48,299 and I could not represent with words 43 00:01:53,510 --> 00:01:50,729 what was going on but everything again 44 00:01:55,520 --> 00:01:53,520 normal like any child we do not know if 45 00:01:58,219 --> 00:01:55,530 it's really there if it's we are 46 00:02:00,410 --> 00:01:58,229 confusing how we should explain or not 47 00:02:03,530 --> 00:02:00,420 if we should tell others or not I never 48 00:02:07,130 --> 00:02:03,540 told anybody until we moved to another 49 00:02:09,740 --> 00:02:07,140 house and the energy field was quite 50 00:02:11,210 --> 00:02:09,750 different the information around was 51 00:02:12,770 --> 00:02:11,220 quite different 52 00:02:16,400 --> 00:02:12,780 and I started having experience that 53 00:02:20,300 --> 00:02:16,410 were quite unpleasant and scary actually 54 00:02:22,820 --> 00:02:20,310 so that was just a period of time it 55 00:02:27,400 --> 00:02:22,830 went away and later on I was very 56 00:02:31,640 --> 00:02:27,410 interested in studying about what is the 57 00:02:33,860 --> 00:02:31,650 information behind life and death why 58 00:02:35,600 --> 00:02:33,870 are we here what is life means are we 59 00:02:37,070 --> 00:02:35,610 here just in all eyes I would say in 60 00:02:39,950 --> 00:02:37,080 Brazil just with barbecue in the 61 00:02:42,860 --> 00:02:39,960 weekends and go with family and then 62 00:02:44,900 --> 00:02:42,870 then why so for me that was always very 63 00:02:47,360 --> 00:02:44,910 important and as a kid I would think 64 00:02:49,550 --> 00:02:47,370 that I was going to dedicate to a field 65 00:02:52,280 --> 00:02:49,560 to help a lot of people a field that 66 00:02:54,620 --> 00:02:52,290 would study who we are inside and how we 67 00:02:56,600 --> 00:02:54,630 grow inside of course it was a big 68 00:02:57,560 --> 00:02:56,610 frustration when I noticed this field 69 00:03:00,170 --> 00:02:57,570 didn't exist 70 00:03:02,540 --> 00:03:00,180 I studied what I could in this area when 71 00:03:04,760 --> 00:03:02,550 I finally noticed there was not much 72 00:03:07,240 --> 00:03:04,770 more that would be answering the 73 00:03:10,070 --> 00:03:07,250 questions I had I decided to join 74 00:03:13,010 --> 00:03:10,080 studying researching and contributing 75 00:03:15,320 --> 00:03:13,020 with the experiences I had I have been 76 00:03:18,560 --> 00:03:15,330 to many places and read many books but I 77 00:03:20,449 --> 00:03:18,570 have a style of for me of understanding 78 00:03:22,970 --> 00:03:20,459 my experiences and understanding these 79 00:03:25,610 --> 00:03:22,980 experiences that I like to exam the 80 00:03:28,280 --> 00:03:25,620 mechanism even when we do not have the 81 00:03:30,610 --> 00:03:28,290 full answer something has to be logic or 82 00:03:33,590 --> 00:03:30,620 has at least will leave room for 83 00:03:35,720 --> 00:03:33,600 explanation and of course we do not have 84 00:03:37,400 --> 00:03:35,730 the explanation for everything but we 85 00:03:38,300 --> 00:03:37,410 don't have the explanation for 86 00:03:40,640 --> 00:03:38,310 everything 87 00:03:42,289 --> 00:03:40,650 in the physical world either there are 88 00:03:45,590 --> 00:03:42,299 so many things in many different areas 89 00:03:47,630 --> 00:03:45,600 biology medicine for sure physics that 90 00:03:49,789 --> 00:03:47,640 we don't have the information we are 91 00:03:52,430 --> 00:03:49,799 fine with that but when it comes to 92 00:03:55,820 --> 00:03:52,440 anything that deals with spirituality we 93 00:03:58,039 --> 00:03:55,830 fall into a big problem that is I like 94 00:03:59,600 --> 00:03:58,049 very much the scientific principles and 95 00:04:01,400 --> 00:03:59,610 how they are and I follow them and I 96 00:04:04,729 --> 00:04:01,410 think we should not go further from 97 00:04:07,759 --> 00:04:04,739 mainstream science because the method is 98 00:04:09,920 --> 00:04:07,769 good in general in principle but we do 99 00:04:12,530 --> 00:04:09,930 not have a good ontology we do not have 100 00:04:14,949 --> 00:04:12,540 a good methodology to exam things there 101 00:04:17,539 --> 00:04:14,959 are more subjective in nature or even 102 00:04:21,289 --> 00:04:17,549 phenomena that are not purely physical 103 00:04:23,990 --> 00:04:21,299 so the it's just repeating what all of 104 00:04:24,390 --> 00:04:24,000 us have been saying here right but it's 105 00:04:26,760 --> 00:04:24,400 a big 106 00:04:30,719 --> 00:04:26,770 Challenge and then we also know that any 107 00:04:32,850 --> 00:04:30,729 study in social area social sciences in 108 00:04:34,740 --> 00:04:32,860 general it's another challenge on top 109 00:04:37,980 --> 00:04:34,750 because we are dealing with something 110 00:04:41,189 --> 00:04:37,990 that's not so easily you know measurable 111 00:04:43,620 --> 00:04:41,199 but we need to find means to do it and 112 00:04:46,290 --> 00:04:43,630 it's so important when we can bring into 113 00:04:48,990 --> 00:04:46,300 a text discourse some feelings perhaps 114 00:04:50,730 --> 00:04:49,000 that the population have are certain 115 00:04:53,490 --> 00:04:50,740 minority or certain groups so we can 116 00:04:55,890 --> 00:04:53,500 understand them now all right those who 117 00:04:58,890 --> 00:04:55,900 experience a phenomena a minority I 118 00:05:01,800 --> 00:04:58,900 think as adults we are and those who are 119 00:05:04,409 --> 00:05:01,810 open to think of it we are even greater 120 00:05:05,820 --> 00:05:04,419 minority those were open to think of it 121 00:05:09,300 --> 00:05:05,830 but to think from a scientific 122 00:05:12,150 --> 00:05:09,310 standpoint but not being closed-minded 123 00:05:13,950 --> 00:05:12,160 even less and here we are some of them 124 00:05:17,210 --> 00:05:13,960 and I feel here very much among 125 00:05:20,040 --> 00:05:17,220 colleagues looking for the same 126 00:05:21,960 --> 00:05:20,050 solutions same answers and four 127 00:05:25,589 --> 00:05:21,970 different ways to come to something 128 00:05:27,719 --> 00:05:25,599 conclusive now when I started after 30 129 00:05:30,600 --> 00:05:27,729 years traveling and teaching about the 130 00:05:32,010 --> 00:05:30,610 esight I became an instructor on how 131 00:05:34,620 --> 00:05:32,020 people would sense their energies and 132 00:05:38,610 --> 00:05:34,630 interpret their experiences I thought 133 00:05:40,969 --> 00:05:38,620 that was fundamental in my life but then 134 00:05:45,300 --> 00:05:40,979 I noticed that throughout these years 135 00:05:47,969 --> 00:05:45,310 parents teachers in general did not know 136 00:05:50,909 --> 00:05:47,979 how to help kids who are undergoing this 137 00:05:52,920 --> 00:05:50,919 type of phenomena and because of the 138 00:05:55,500 --> 00:05:52,930 time that I was fearful of my 139 00:05:58,500 --> 00:05:55,510 experiences I thought that is not fair 140 00:06:00,990 --> 00:05:58,510 that's not fair with kids I think it's 141 00:06:04,260 --> 00:06:01,000 wonderful when we do experiments maybe 142 00:06:07,350 --> 00:06:04,270 devising different devices so we can 143 00:06:08,219 --> 00:06:07,360 measure our intent great but we have a 144 00:06:10,860 --> 00:06:08,229 problem 145 00:06:13,350 --> 00:06:10,870 that's right here right now at our hands 146 00:06:16,320 --> 00:06:13,360 how can we help those who have 147 00:06:18,360 --> 00:06:16,330 experience and they need explanations or 148 00:06:21,629 --> 00:06:18,370 they need at least some guidance on how 149 00:06:24,029 --> 00:06:21,639 to deal with them emotionally or as I 150 00:06:25,800 --> 00:06:24,039 would like to say energetically whatever 151 00:06:28,710 --> 00:06:25,810 this word means we do not even have 152 00:06:31,740 --> 00:06:28,720 proper words to address the concepts 153 00:06:34,200 --> 00:06:31,750 that we want so here was some of us sat 154 00:06:35,490 --> 00:06:34,210 of Energy's bioenergy baby bio field and 155 00:06:37,030 --> 00:06:35,500 maybe prom night maybe 156 00:06:41,110 --> 00:06:37,040 so we are 157 00:06:43,990 --> 00:06:41,120 so behind we all of us in terms of 158 00:06:46,480 --> 00:06:44,000 creating a language that all of us we 159 00:06:48,490 --> 00:06:46,490 can understand each other and only then 160 00:06:50,350 --> 00:06:48,500 when we can understand each other in our 161 00:06:53,590 --> 00:06:50,360 language we can disagree with each other 162 00:06:55,810 --> 00:06:53,600 properly and we will I hope so and now 163 00:06:58,210 --> 00:06:55,820 we have to disagree we have to debate we 164 00:07:01,210 --> 00:06:58,220 have to come with a you know best 165 00:07:06,610 --> 00:07:01,220 answers up to that moment so I decided 166 00:07:09,040 --> 00:07:06,620 to start this study that I conducted so 167 00:07:12,040 --> 00:07:09,050 I did interviews because I did not want 168 00:07:13,990 --> 00:07:12,050 to write about these experiences which 169 00:07:16,420 --> 00:07:14,000 is my intent to write a book to parents 170 00:07:18,580 --> 00:07:16,430 mostly I don't think I can address kids 171 00:07:21,880 --> 00:07:18,590 directly but I can help parents who are 172 00:07:23,980 --> 00:07:21,890 open minded to understand their kids so 173 00:07:27,040 --> 00:07:23,990 but I decided I could not write only 174 00:07:29,200 --> 00:07:27,050 based on my experiences and only any 175 00:07:32,230 --> 00:07:29,210 doctor experiences that I have heard do 176 00:07:35,050 --> 00:07:32,240 you imagine 28 years traveling and you 177 00:07:37,210 --> 00:07:35,060 know mentoring people I heard lots of 178 00:07:39,340 --> 00:07:37,220 experience but I wanted to do something 179 00:07:41,890 --> 00:07:39,350 very strict according to the best 180 00:07:46,180 --> 00:07:41,900 scientific methods we have for this type 181 00:07:48,880 --> 00:07:46,190 of thing so I did interviews in that 182 00:07:51,760 --> 00:07:48,890 interviews most of them with people I 183 00:07:55,390 --> 00:07:51,770 don't know I had never heard about and I 184 00:07:57,940 --> 00:07:55,400 want to combine the quantitative data or 185 00:08:01,180 --> 00:07:57,950 better saying bring qualitative 186 00:08:03,400 --> 00:08:01,190 quantitative data from the qualitative 187 00:08:05,170 --> 00:08:03,410 right and that's a big challenge 188 00:08:07,390 --> 00:08:05,180 Jennifer was just addressing that 189 00:08:09,250 --> 00:08:07,400 brilliantly was very nice introduction 190 00:08:11,800 --> 00:08:09,260 I'm not going to tell you about my 191 00:08:15,220 --> 00:08:11,810 fearful experiences but I have here a 192 00:08:16,990 --> 00:08:15,230 little transcript from one of the cases 193 00:08:19,000 --> 00:08:17,000 that I have studied I am going to read 194 00:08:22,660 --> 00:08:19,010 here with you so you get a feeling of 195 00:08:25,600 --> 00:08:22,670 what I'm talking about one of the 196 00:08:28,180 --> 00:08:25,610 subjects said I was afraid from four to 197 00:08:32,230 --> 00:08:28,190 twelve I knew there were intangible 198 00:08:34,510 --> 00:08:32,240 people around I could feel it sometimes 199 00:08:37,120 --> 00:08:34,520 I would hear them sometimes I would see 200 00:08:39,430 --> 00:08:37,130 them and sometimes I would feel them 201 00:08:42,010 --> 00:08:39,440 touching me going to his lip was never a 202 00:08:44,050 --> 00:08:42,020 good experience sometimes I would wake 203 00:08:47,980 --> 00:08:44,060 up in the middle of the night and sense 204 00:08:49,710 --> 00:08:47,990 them - I also had lots of his lip 205 00:08:51,960 --> 00:08:49,720 paralysis and falling sensation 206 00:08:55,260 --> 00:08:51,970 I was completely alone with this thing 207 00:08:58,320 --> 00:08:55,270 nobody knew how to help me when I told 208 00:09:01,860 --> 00:08:58,330 my mother I saw the fear in her face she 209 00:09:04,470 --> 00:09:01,870 was paralyzed she did not want me to 210 00:09:07,380 --> 00:09:04,480 notice that but it was so easy to notice 211 00:09:10,290 --> 00:09:07,390 so I thought there was something wrong 212 00:09:12,900 --> 00:09:10,300 with my mind my loving parents could not 213 00:09:15,810 --> 00:09:12,910 understand what I was going through and 214 00:09:19,560 --> 00:09:15,820 then I have another case again just to 215 00:09:22,740 --> 00:09:19,570 illustrate I felt presences in the 216 00:09:25,950 --> 00:09:22,750 bedroom from 6 to 8 years old was the 217 00:09:29,820 --> 00:09:25,960 worst sometimes I would feel their touch 218 00:09:34,380 --> 00:09:29,830 I tried to resist not to go to my mom's 219 00:09:37,350 --> 00:09:34,390 room it seemed like an eternity some 220 00:09:39,990 --> 00:09:37,360 nights I could not fall asleep in others 221 00:09:42,750 --> 00:09:40,000 I felt they woke me up in the middle of 222 00:09:45,660 --> 00:09:42,760 the night often there would be noises in 223 00:09:49,110 --> 00:09:45,670 the room I'd stay without moving for a 224 00:09:51,480 --> 00:09:49,120 long long time sometimes I would pray 225 00:09:54,600 --> 00:09:51,490 when I could I would turn on turn the 226 00:09:56,880 --> 00:09:54,610 lights on the fear was so much I 227 00:09:59,700 --> 00:09:56,890 couldn't clearly discern to put into 228 00:10:01,110 --> 00:09:59,710 words what was happening I was extremely 229 00:10:05,460 --> 00:10:01,120 introverted and shy 230 00:10:07,890 --> 00:10:05,470 my family was Spiritist but no one 231 00:10:11,520 --> 00:10:07,900 approached me to help so this is what we 232 00:10:13,320 --> 00:10:11,530 are dealing with not for everyone I was 233 00:10:16,680 --> 00:10:13,330 very pleased with the result of my 234 00:10:18,630 --> 00:10:16,690 research because many of the data and 235 00:10:22,110 --> 00:10:18,640 the findings and some of the experience 236 00:10:23,760 --> 00:10:22,120 surprised me some are similar to things 237 00:10:26,520 --> 00:10:23,770 I have experienced but I have seen so 238 00:10:29,820 --> 00:10:26,530 many kids who would sense some of this 239 00:10:32,220 --> 00:10:29,830 in tangible reality but would know how 240 00:10:34,260 --> 00:10:32,230 to deal with it but also the biggest 241 00:10:36,240 --> 00:10:34,270 challenge here is not to hear these 242 00:10:38,460 --> 00:10:36,250 stories from people is what we were 243 00:10:41,190 --> 00:10:38,470 discussing before how do we know they 244 00:10:44,610 --> 00:10:41,200 really happened and how can I get this 245 00:10:46,920 --> 00:10:44,620 information from a child so we talked 246 00:10:48,780 --> 00:10:46,930 about conceal Ian's but right now the 247 00:10:51,000 --> 00:10:48,790 information that we have about children 248 00:10:52,740 --> 00:10:51,010 and this is something that I hope all of 249 00:10:55,590 --> 00:10:52,750 us can work to change and I'm doing my 250 00:10:58,440 --> 00:10:55,600 best to contribute is that side 251 00:11:00,470 --> 00:10:58,450 perceptions actions and cognition 252 00:11:04,550 --> 00:11:00,480 because they are the truth fields there 253 00:11:06,740 --> 00:11:04,560 site area are taken either by those who 254 00:11:09,230 --> 00:11:06,750 have a supernatural approach that the 255 00:11:11,690 --> 00:11:09,240 child is a special advanced I totally 256 00:11:14,540 --> 00:11:11,700 disagree with that I think that's wrong 257 00:11:17,510 --> 00:11:14,550 from from principle it is just a normal 258 00:11:20,060 --> 00:11:17,520 thing we don't know how to understand 259 00:11:22,820 --> 00:11:20,070 them but that is normal if it is what 260 00:11:24,830 --> 00:11:22,830 I'm talking about and we have an area of 261 00:11:27,590 --> 00:11:24,840 neurophysiology which we need to 262 00:11:30,680 --> 00:11:27,600 understand better someone yesterday 263 00:11:33,800 --> 00:11:30,690 mentioned that we need more studies 264 00:11:35,900 --> 00:11:33,810 about the brain I totally agree we need 265 00:11:38,270 --> 00:11:35,910 to understand how the brain of a young 266 00:11:40,520 --> 00:11:38,280 child works differently from an adult 267 00:11:42,230 --> 00:11:40,530 what we change but we also need to 268 00:11:44,630 --> 00:11:42,240 understand from a social point of view 269 00:11:47,810 --> 00:11:44,640 what changes on us because there are so 270 00:11:51,470 --> 00:11:47,820 many things that we are taught to you 271 00:11:53,390 --> 00:11:51,480 know repress that there may be angles of 272 00:11:56,000 --> 00:11:53,400 our manifestation that we don't even 273 00:11:57,620 --> 00:11:56,010 remember now so we need to learn to be 274 00:12:00,140 --> 00:11:57,630 able to guide all of that and most 275 00:12:02,300 --> 00:12:00,150 definitely some people could imagine 276 00:12:05,900 --> 00:12:02,310 these experiences I'm not saying they're 277 00:12:10,010 --> 00:12:05,910 all real my point is some of them may be 278 00:12:12,500 --> 00:12:10,020 real psychiatry of course is super 279 00:12:14,870 --> 00:12:12,510 important there could be cases in which 280 00:12:17,030 --> 00:12:14,880 it's a psychiatric problem it can be a 281 00:12:19,820 --> 00:12:17,040 chemical imbalance we should be able to 282 00:12:25,220 --> 00:12:19,830 help that child or adult if that is the 283 00:12:27,140 --> 00:12:25,230 case so perfectly fit here psychology of 284 00:12:30,530 --> 00:12:27,150 course there may be cases that it's a 285 00:12:32,540 --> 00:12:30,540 trauma it's some sort of memory that is 286 00:12:34,760 --> 00:12:32,550 coming out through those experiences and 287 00:12:38,300 --> 00:12:34,770 we have a religion which is not a field 288 00:12:40,100 --> 00:12:38,310 but I think interfere with all of the 289 00:12:42,050 --> 00:12:40,110 different views from the point of view 290 00:12:46,160 --> 00:12:42,060 of those who are experiencing to those 291 00:12:49,220 --> 00:12:46,170 who are examining and scientists in all 292 00:12:52,370 --> 00:12:49,230 of these areas sometimes they let their 293 00:12:54,950 --> 00:12:52,380 beliefs from what they their religious 294 00:12:56,690 --> 00:12:54,960 background to guide them and we have to 295 00:12:59,240 --> 00:12:56,700 be very careful with that to be truly 296 00:13:01,580 --> 00:12:59,250 unbiased all of the cases that I have 297 00:13:03,830 --> 00:13:01,590 exempt there I thought you know the 298 00:13:06,680 --> 00:13:03,840 person could be confused that there was 299 00:13:09,830 --> 00:13:06,690 it was not a real case I preferred to 300 00:13:12,200 --> 00:13:09,840 dismiss even after 2-3 hours of 301 00:13:13,170 --> 00:13:12,210 recording and interview because I wanted 302 00:13:15,300 --> 00:13:13,180 to collect 303 00:13:17,640 --> 00:13:15,310 that would help me understand the 304 00:13:21,300 --> 00:13:17,650 phenomenon sorry I'm speaking so fast 305 00:13:25,560 --> 00:13:21,310 you can follow me right good if not you 306 00:13:28,290 --> 00:13:25,570 raise your hand and shout there the 307 00:13:30,840 --> 00:13:28,300 information we have if we compile about 308 00:13:33,660 --> 00:13:30,850 mental diseases and how children are 309 00:13:36,360 --> 00:13:33,670 diagnosed with mental diseases it's very 310 00:13:39,210 --> 00:13:36,370 sad and there are many different studies 311 00:13:41,760 --> 00:13:39,220 even studies about schizophrenia 312 00:13:44,820 --> 00:13:41,770 schizophrenia like in childhood onset 313 00:13:47,070 --> 00:13:44,830 like around eight nine ten years old and 314 00:13:50,430 --> 00:13:47,080 I'm not saying schizophrenia does not 315 00:13:53,280 --> 00:13:50,440 exist please I'm saying it absolutely 316 00:13:56,220 --> 00:13:53,290 does but if we cannot separate what is 317 00:13:59,790 --> 00:13:56,230 the schizophrenic child from one with 318 00:14:02,250 --> 00:13:59,800 indeed perceiving something how are we 319 00:14:05,340 --> 00:14:02,260 going to establish a good science for us 320 00:14:08,610 --> 00:14:05,350 how didn't we create for example the DSM 321 00:14:11,520 --> 00:14:08,620 that guides us into observing people who 322 00:14:14,070 --> 00:14:11,530 have psychiatric problems you know you 323 00:14:17,610 --> 00:14:14,080 have a list of some behaviors but who 324 00:14:20,730 --> 00:14:17,620 said necessarily those behaviors point 325 00:14:24,090 --> 00:14:20,740 to that mental problem is statistically 326 00:14:26,640 --> 00:14:24,100 speaking right we know it does we go 327 00:14:29,340 --> 00:14:26,650 with a statistic but we also know that 328 00:14:32,130 --> 00:14:29,350 in these cases statistics may be very 329 00:14:35,940 --> 00:14:32,140 deceiving and for the one person who was 330 00:14:38,310 --> 00:14:35,950 not really mental ill and had a mad 331 00:14:43,290 --> 00:14:38,320 misdiagnosis that can be a big problem 332 00:14:45,470 --> 00:14:43,300 so I could race or study from the 333 00:14:48,840 --> 00:14:45,480 interviews I did all of this different 334 00:14:51,780 --> 00:14:48,850 phenomena naturally coming and I 335 00:14:55,820 --> 00:14:51,790 interviewed I'm going to skip this one 336 00:14:59,550 --> 00:14:55,830 I interviewed children or people from 337 00:15:02,370 --> 00:14:59,560 two-and-a-half years old to 57 of course 338 00:15:05,280 --> 00:15:02,380 those who are 57 I had to limit that 339 00:15:08,250 --> 00:15:05,290 they tell me their experience up to 14 340 00:15:10,980 --> 00:15:08,260 we have to establish what is no longer a 341 00:15:14,250 --> 00:15:10,990 child experience but a an adolescent 342 00:15:17,670 --> 00:15:14,260 experience so it was so important I see 343 00:15:20,190 --> 00:15:17,680 at the time people from 13 different 344 00:15:22,980 --> 00:15:20,200 countries six religious backgrounds 345 00:15:25,100 --> 00:15:22,990 including Muslim which was the hardest I 346 00:15:28,430 --> 00:15:25,110 think because it's more strict religion 347 00:15:31,300 --> 00:15:28,440 and almost half of them never heard of 348 00:15:34,370 --> 00:15:31,310 any of these and none of them were under 349 00:15:36,310 --> 00:15:34,380 psychoactive drugs during their 350 00:15:39,200 --> 00:15:36,320 experience 351 00:15:42,950 --> 00:15:39,210 later on some experimented with it I 352 00:15:44,870 --> 00:15:42,960 asked just to be sure I wanted to say 353 00:15:47,450 --> 00:15:44,880 here and I'm not going to read it yet 354 00:15:50,030 --> 00:15:47,460 and these people nowadays that I 355 00:15:52,820 --> 00:15:50,040 interviewed they are absolutely normal 356 00:15:55,130 --> 00:15:52,830 people maybe one or two a little bit 357 00:15:56,720 --> 00:15:55,140 miss adjusted in their career but all 358 00:15:59,390 --> 00:15:56,730 the rest medical doctors engineers 359 00:16:02,600 --> 00:15:59,400 enterpreneurs very successful people so 360 00:16:04,850 --> 00:16:02,610 I don't think we can label them as crazy 361 00:16:07,940 --> 00:16:04,860 schizophrenic irrational or anything 362 00:16:11,030 --> 00:16:07,950 like that and I certainly hope I don't 363 00:16:12,800 --> 00:16:11,040 see myself as that or you big challenge 364 00:16:14,660 --> 00:16:12,810 I had and I will have to stop around 365 00:16:16,730 --> 00:16:14,670 here was the demarcation of the 366 00:16:19,430 --> 00:16:16,740 phenomena I have to establish when I 367 00:16:22,880 --> 00:16:19,440 hear something is that a real phenomena 368 00:16:25,520 --> 00:16:22,890 what are the elements the coding that I 369 00:16:27,770 --> 00:16:25,530 find to know it's not an imagination or 370 00:16:30,230 --> 00:16:27,780 the person is not confusing a dream with 371 00:16:33,410 --> 00:16:30,240 a real experience so that was a 372 00:16:35,590 --> 00:16:33,420 challenge that I could only face because 373 00:16:39,530 --> 00:16:35,600 I have almost 30 years of experience 374 00:16:41,630 --> 00:16:39,540 researching the field and we know more 375 00:16:44,750 --> 00:16:41,640 or less you know the descriptions and 376 00:16:47,900 --> 00:16:44,760 how people read something and they try 377 00:16:51,530 --> 00:16:47,910 to mimic even though it's not a real 378 00:16:53,990 --> 00:16:51,540 experience for them also I had to create 379 00:16:58,790 --> 00:16:54,000 scales because if somebody tells me oh I 380 00:17:02,360 --> 00:16:58,800 saw spirits or I saw a being how clearly 381 00:17:05,000 --> 00:17:02,370 you saw it how sure are you so I have to 382 00:17:08,210 --> 00:17:05,010 ask questions right so that throughout 383 00:17:10,310 --> 00:17:08,220 my questions I can infer a degree so 384 00:17:12,829 --> 00:17:10,320 that person was really super clairvoyant 385 00:17:14,600 --> 00:17:12,839 this one only once in a while saw some 386 00:17:17,840 --> 00:17:14,610 subtle energies and that's it 387 00:17:20,449 --> 00:17:17,850 that is relevant and mostly it was also 388 00:17:21,890 --> 00:17:20,459 relevant and complex to create and I'm 389 00:17:24,470 --> 00:17:21,900 still working on it that is an 390 00:17:26,540 --> 00:17:24,480 exploratory study and I'm going to have 391 00:17:28,300 --> 00:17:26,550 other phases of the study that I take 392 00:17:32,060 --> 00:17:28,310 very very seriously 393 00:17:34,290 --> 00:17:32,070 scales of uneasiness or fear because 394 00:17:38,560 --> 00:17:34,300 some people may say oh yes I was 395 00:17:39,610 --> 00:17:38,570 how much afraid is afraid right because 396 00:17:41,530 --> 00:17:39,620 some people maybe they're just 397 00:17:43,540 --> 00:17:41,540 uncomfortable and comfortable they 398 00:17:45,040 --> 00:17:43,550 didn't know what it was and they just 399 00:17:47,290 --> 00:17:45,050 pick the first word in their mouth oh 400 00:17:50,050 --> 00:17:47,300 yes so it was afraid but how did you 401 00:17:52,690 --> 00:17:50,060 feel it Oh tell me and I was very very 402 00:17:54,850 --> 00:17:52,700 careful that was my area of study on how 403 00:17:56,560 --> 00:17:54,860 to conduct the interview so I would 404 00:17:58,900 --> 00:17:56,570 absolutely not 405 00:18:01,360 --> 00:17:58,910 to induce anything but at the same time 406 00:18:03,370 --> 00:18:01,370 give room for people to remember their 407 00:18:06,340 --> 00:18:03,380 experience I might have one minute John 408 00:18:08,350 --> 00:18:06,350 I'm going to skip this true perversion 409 00:18:10,930 --> 00:18:08,360 sort of that we experienced Sears and 410 00:18:13,030 --> 00:18:10,940 then some of the findings found that 411 00:18:15,460 --> 00:18:13,040 there is a suggestive relationship 412 00:18:17,520 --> 00:18:15,470 between gender and the type of psy 413 00:18:20,230 --> 00:18:17,530 experience that people are more prone to 414 00:18:22,480 --> 00:18:20,240 this is something that empirically 415 00:18:25,090 --> 00:18:22,490 Vagner and I have read observed 416 00:18:29,070 --> 00:18:25,100 throughout all of these years in our 417 00:18:31,990 --> 00:18:29,080 area some phenomena are more easily 418 00:18:33,820 --> 00:18:32,000 experienced and understood by male 419 00:18:35,650 --> 00:18:33,830 gender than female but of course it's 420 00:18:37,210 --> 00:18:35,660 just a matter of statistics I'm not 421 00:18:39,100 --> 00:18:37,220 saying it is what it is just 422 00:18:43,360 --> 00:18:39,110 statistically that is what it was 423 00:18:45,000 --> 00:18:43,370 reviewed and large level of those people 424 00:18:49,570 --> 00:18:45,010 who were more sensitive they were 425 00:18:53,860 --> 00:18:49,580 introverted not all but the very really 426 00:18:56,620 --> 00:18:53,870 big proportion reaction of parents to 427 00:18:58,630 --> 00:18:56,630 kids discourse and like to say that can 428 00:19:01,240 --> 00:18:58,640 be worse than the experience per se the 429 00:19:03,070 --> 00:19:01,250 experience can be fearful but if parents 430 00:19:05,860 --> 00:19:03,080 tell the kid oh this is just in your 431 00:19:08,620 --> 00:19:05,870 mind it's just a dream but the child is 432 00:19:11,710 --> 00:19:08,630 normal intelligent enlightened and the 433 00:19:14,800 --> 00:19:11,720 child knows I was not imagining I was 434 00:19:17,380 --> 00:19:14,810 awake I didn't invent this so that 435 00:19:19,780 --> 00:19:17,390 confuses the child twice as much and 436 00:19:21,490 --> 00:19:19,790 that can be very aggravating that was 437 00:19:24,250 --> 00:19:21,500 the worst result I saw from the 438 00:19:26,680 --> 00:19:24,260 experiences the most common experience 439 00:19:28,900 --> 00:19:26,690 was sensing no physical people lived was 440 00:19:29,620 --> 00:19:28,910 how people deal with fear can you see 441 00:19:31,600 --> 00:19:29,630 the image 442 00:19:33,460 --> 00:19:31,610 it's a lovely image that a friend drew 443 00:19:34,990 --> 00:19:33,470 for me but you know covering everything 444 00:19:36,970 --> 00:19:35,000 and just leaving maybe a little hole for 445 00:19:42,250 --> 00:19:36,980 the nose to breathe maybe some of you 446 00:19:44,860 --> 00:19:42,260 recognize that today these child's or 447 00:19:47,430 --> 00:19:44,870 those children at that time that are 448 00:19:49,230 --> 00:19:47,440 interviewed now 97% of the 449 00:19:50,790 --> 00:19:49,240 who are now adults because I interviewed 450 00:19:54,210 --> 00:19:50,800 many kids so I cannot ask you this 451 00:19:56,370 --> 00:19:54,220 question but 97% of them still have SCI 452 00:20:00,300 --> 00:19:56,380 experiences I think that is very 453 00:20:02,310 --> 00:20:00,310 relevant and the 66% perceive their 454 00:20:02,990 --> 00:20:02,320 experience as have been positives in 455 00:20:06,480 --> 00:20:03,000 their lives 456 00:20:08,910 --> 00:20:06,490 25% perceived as being neutral and 457 00:20:11,190 --> 00:20:08,920 nobody said it was really bad I wished I 458 00:20:13,290 --> 00:20:11,200 never had them although I believe it can 459 00:20:14,580 --> 00:20:13,300 be the case for some people but not in 460 00:20:17,330 --> 00:20:14,590 this population 461 00:20:20,970 --> 00:20:17,340 I wish someday we can make a catalog 462 00:20:24,930 --> 00:20:20,980 discerning signs that would help parents 463 00:20:28,110 --> 00:20:24,940 in ourselves how do we know if a certain 464 00:20:30,360 --> 00:20:28,120 perception we have is an imagination is 465 00:20:32,340 --> 00:20:30,370 our brain creating or is a real 466 00:20:35,370 --> 00:20:32,350 experience throughout all of these years 467 00:20:36,960 --> 00:20:35,380 I have seen so many know fake people 468 00:20:40,530 --> 00:20:36,970 study in this area and that does not 469 00:20:43,020 --> 00:20:40,540 contribute that only puts a whole work 470 00:20:46,650 --> 00:20:43,030 of all of us down I've seen people who 471 00:20:49,470 --> 00:20:46,660 really had skills becoming gurus and I 472 00:20:51,870 --> 00:20:49,480 have seen those who had zero skills just 473 00:20:55,140 --> 00:20:51,880 read books and they also try to become 474 00:20:57,060 --> 00:20:55,150 gurus because people are the population 475 00:20:59,220 --> 00:20:57,070 in general they may be gullible so we 476 00:21:02,310 --> 00:20:59,230 are dealing with a very sensitive topic 477 00:21:04,260 --> 00:21:02,320 that we have to take seriously so that 478 00:21:06,600 --> 00:21:04,270 we help people to understand without 479 00:21:08,010 --> 00:21:06,610 creating in their minds the idea that 480 00:21:10,560 --> 00:21:08,020 that's something supernatural 481 00:21:12,870 --> 00:21:10,570 on the contrary bringing these to have 482 00:21:14,760 --> 00:21:12,880 down-to-earth level I thank all of the 483 00:21:17,160 --> 00:21:14,770 participants they were very kind shared 484 00:21:19,050 --> 00:21:17,170 with me their intimacy and I think the 485 00:21:21,570 --> 00:21:19,060 IAC this is a photo from our campus in 486 00:21:24,240 --> 00:21:21,580 Portugal and they I see provided me a 487 00:21:32,600 --> 00:21:24,250 platform to be able to do this so my 488 00:21:38,250 --> 00:21:37,200 what a challenge that was wonderful so 489 00:21:44,070 --> 00:21:38,260 we do have some time for some questions 490 00:21:45,810 --> 00:21:44,080 I enjoyed that very much 491 00:21:47,640 --> 00:21:45,820 I've known to pass on some ideas to you 492 00:21:49,830 --> 00:21:47,650 because I've had some experience that 493 00:21:51,450 --> 00:21:49,840 there's my son when he was in the early 494 00:21:53,670 --> 00:21:51,460 teens he started having out-of-body 495 00:21:55,170 --> 00:21:53,680 experiences and I knew nothing about it 496 00:21:58,170 --> 00:21:55,180 so I couldn't really help him on that 497 00:22:00,210 --> 00:21:58,180 the trying to think what else happened 498 00:22:00,900 --> 00:22:00,220 well when to tell you a source that'd be 499 00:22:03,420 --> 00:22:00,910 good for you 500 00:22:07,110 --> 00:22:03,430 Carol Bowman has a book on childhood 501 00:22:08,970 --> 00:22:07,120 past life experiences and she went on to 502 00:22:10,830 --> 00:22:08,980 become a therapist and work with us and 503 00:22:12,600 --> 00:22:10,840 so she's probably willing to talk to you 504 00:22:13,080 --> 00:22:12,610 I can give you some references on that 505 00:22:18,180 --> 00:22:13,090 too 506 00:22:19,650 --> 00:22:18,190 does that be a good I'm not so sure by 507 00:22:22,590 --> 00:22:19,660 the name if you give me the reference 508 00:22:24,450 --> 00:22:22,600 later for the suggestion you're welcome 509 00:22:29,280 --> 00:22:24,460 I'm very glad there are not so many 510 00:22:34,890 --> 00:22:29,290 books out there for this the fact that 511 00:22:37,290 --> 00:22:34,900 people like you know I guess just 512 00:22:40,080 --> 00:22:37,300 children of all types and then also 513 00:22:41,880 --> 00:22:40,090 people on like who are like on 514 00:22:44,130 --> 00:22:41,890 psychedelics and then also people with 515 00:22:45,930 --> 00:22:44,140 like chemical imbalances or with 516 00:22:50,460 --> 00:22:45,940 psychological conditions experience the 517 00:22:54,050 --> 00:22:50,470 same thing that fact might give insight 518 00:23:00,210 --> 00:22:54,060 as to the nature of this phenomenon 519 00:23:04,170 --> 00:23:00,220 similarly what methods have worked to 520 00:23:08,730 --> 00:23:04,180 help people cope with it or two maybe 521 00:23:12,650 --> 00:23:08,740 even cure symptoms can also give insight 522 00:23:19,110 --> 00:23:12,660 so I was kind of curious like what like 523 00:23:23,460 --> 00:23:19,120 have people found useful for yeah for 524 00:23:24,270 --> 00:23:23,470 healthy or coping with because that's a 525 00:23:27,600 --> 00:23:24,280 very good question 526 00:23:29,550 --> 00:23:27,610 I have had cases of some parents who 527 00:23:32,100 --> 00:23:29,560 told me about their kids being afraid 528 00:23:35,520 --> 00:23:32,110 and so forth and I just taught them to 529 00:23:38,610 --> 00:23:35,530 explain in simple terms very simple 530 00:23:41,610 --> 00:23:38,620 terms you know about the energy world 531 00:23:44,100 --> 00:23:41,620 around us and how what we are perceiving 532 00:23:45,780 --> 00:23:44,110 about picking some information that is 533 00:23:47,970 --> 00:23:45,790 coming from a consciousness either be a 534 00:23:50,460 --> 00:23:47,980 physical one and no physical or from the 535 00:23:52,500 --> 00:23:50,470 environment there are so many reported 536 00:23:55,080 --> 00:23:52,510 and affirmed cases of poltergeists for 537 00:23:57,450 --> 00:23:55,090 example imagine a sensitive kid in a 538 00:24:00,180 --> 00:23:57,460 case like that so it can be very 539 00:24:01,830 --> 00:24:00,190 difficult there are many many experience 540 00:24:03,990 --> 00:24:01,840 that are very pleasant I just did not 541 00:24:06,030 --> 00:24:04,000 narrate them here but some experience 542 00:24:10,530 --> 00:24:06,040 are very pleasant and people meet very 543 00:24:12,450 --> 00:24:10,540 good entities or beings so number one my 544 00:24:15,000 --> 00:24:12,460 suggestion is learning how to deal with 545 00:24:17,820 --> 00:24:15,010 the situation as it is what we are 546 00:24:19,860 --> 00:24:17,830 perceiving is energy my fear here is 547 00:24:22,650 --> 00:24:19,870 because of an experience X and that 548 00:24:24,930 --> 00:24:22,660 explained the true thing to the kids all 549 00:24:28,080 --> 00:24:24,940 of the cases that parents have done that 550 00:24:31,080 --> 00:24:28,090 very easily kids picket because kids 551 00:24:34,140 --> 00:24:31,090 experience all of these which much more 552 00:24:38,190 --> 00:24:34,150 facility than we do you know after we 553 00:24:39,870 --> 00:24:38,200 grow up our brains so rigidly set and 554 00:24:43,110 --> 00:24:39,880 that's why we have to be careful on how 555 00:24:44,460 --> 00:24:43,120 we explain to kids never ever trying to 556 00:24:47,040 --> 00:24:44,470 tell them they should have these 557 00:24:47,700 --> 00:24:47,050 experiences but never ever trying to 558 00:24:50,850 --> 00:24:47,710 tell them 559 00:24:52,290 --> 00:24:50,860 this is wrong it's just an experience we 560 00:24:54,360 --> 00:24:52,300 don't tell it's wrong to have a dream 561 00:24:56,549 --> 00:24:54,370 why would be wrong to perceive something 562 00:24:58,140 --> 00:24:56,559 that's not physical unless you know a 563 00:25:00,570 --> 00:24:58,150 parent believe there's nothing beyond 564 00:25:01,650 --> 00:25:00,580 but when we check religions basically 565 00:25:04,860 --> 00:25:01,660 all religions say there's something 566 00:25:06,150 --> 00:25:04,870 beyond so what is the thing there and so 567 00:25:07,830 --> 00:25:06,160 that is the one thing the other thing is 568 00:25:09,450 --> 00:25:07,840 about drug that you mentioned some 569 00:25:11,790 --> 00:25:09,460 people do experience things with drugs 570 00:25:14,430 --> 00:25:11,800 we don't recommend because later on we 571 00:25:17,100 --> 00:25:14,440 cannot say what was just a creation of 572 00:25:19,410 --> 00:25:17,110 the brain just an imagination just an 573 00:25:21,480 --> 00:25:19,420 effect or maybe the drug produced some 574 00:25:24,120 --> 00:25:21,490 of these experience but it's so 575 00:25:26,340 --> 00:25:24,130 difficult to interpret to understand 576 00:25:29,280 --> 00:25:26,350 what we sensed and what it means when we 577 00:25:30,600 --> 00:25:29,290 are super lucid imagine if we are under 578 00:25:32,730 --> 00:25:30,610 the influence of drugs so the 579 00:25:36,540 --> 00:25:32,740 information that comes with the 580 00:25:38,970 --> 00:25:36,550 experience is not very reliable so you 581 00:25:40,799 --> 00:25:38,980 know we can do that and feel great with 582 00:25:47,370 --> 00:25:40,809 all the drugs but of course we need to 583 00:25:49,290 --> 00:25:47,380 teach the methods ok yeah thank you very 584 00:25:51,180 --> 00:25:49,300 much I think this kind of material needs 585 00:25:52,390 --> 00:25:51,190 to be made more available to the general 586 00:25:54,070 --> 00:25:52,400 public one 587 00:25:56,800 --> 00:25:54,080 book that was really impressive I read 588 00:25:59,710 --> 00:25:56,810 about 15 years ago called visions of 589 00:26:01,540 --> 00:25:59,720 innocence I can't remember the author I 590 00:26:03,940 --> 00:26:01,550 think was a psychologist from New York 591 00:26:05,380 --> 00:26:03,950 last name of Hoffmann but he goes into a 592 00:26:07,240 --> 00:26:05,390 lot of the details on your talk about 593 00:26:10,300 --> 00:26:07,250 and what happens to the child afterwards 594 00:26:12,370 --> 00:26:10,310 in a very positive sense what did the 595 00:26:14,110 --> 00:26:12,380 name of the book again I said I remember 596 00:26:16,600 --> 00:26:14,120 the name vividly is on top of my shelf 597 00:26:21,070 --> 00:26:16,610 visions of innocence visions of 598 00:26:22,570 --> 00:26:21,080 innocence thank you so much thank you 599 00:26:25,210 --> 00:26:22,580 for bringing a developmental perspective 600 00:26:27,370 --> 00:26:25,220 to to this dialogue because we have 601 00:26:28,660 --> 00:26:27,380 focused on only on adults and I think it 602 00:26:30,700 --> 00:26:28,670 would be interesting to have a 603 00:26:32,920 --> 00:26:30,710 comparative perspective and seeing how 604 00:26:33,910 --> 00:26:32,930 the SCI experiences look in childhood as 605 00:26:36,430 --> 00:26:33,920 opposed to adulthood 606 00:26:39,130 --> 00:26:36,440 but I have a question concerning the 607 00:26:42,760 --> 00:26:39,140 themes that you will imagine that could 608 00:26:44,170 --> 00:26:42,770 be addressed in parent education as you 609 00:26:46,420 --> 00:26:44,180 have spoken that they can be so 610 00:26:48,820 --> 00:26:46,430 detrimental for the child experience how 611 00:26:50,800 --> 00:26:48,830 do you see a potential development of 612 00:26:52,720 --> 00:26:50,810 curricula for parent education I think 613 00:26:55,380 --> 00:26:52,730 the first thing we need to do is to 614 00:26:59,050 --> 00:26:55,390 guide parents how to hear and what 615 00:27:01,120 --> 00:26:59,060 questions to ask because if you ask the 616 00:27:04,330 --> 00:27:01,130 wrong question you will induce the child 617 00:27:07,030 --> 00:27:04,340 to fantasize and please you or you will 618 00:27:09,790 --> 00:27:07,040 repress the child so number one thing is 619 00:27:12,280 --> 00:27:09,800 what is the right way for me to open up 620 00:27:15,070 --> 00:27:12,290 for my child to try and explain to me 621 00:27:16,960 --> 00:27:15,080 and we would teach about these and we 622 00:27:19,570 --> 00:27:16,970 talk to adults it's so difficult to 623 00:27:22,000 --> 00:27:19,580 express our experiences because they are 624 00:27:23,950 --> 00:27:22,010 not completely physical even though we 625 00:27:26,230 --> 00:27:23,960 may sense them sometimes here with the 626 00:27:28,660 --> 00:27:26,240 physical body so we do not have proper 627 00:27:30,280 --> 00:27:28,670 words it's confusing many times we may 628 00:27:31,570 --> 00:27:30,290 have an out-of-body experience we only 629 00:27:33,520 --> 00:27:31,580 remember a fragment 630 00:27:35,140 --> 00:27:33,530 it's very common not to be sure if an 631 00:27:35,740 --> 00:27:35,150 experience is a dream or an out-of-body 632 00:27:37,570 --> 00:27:35,750 experience 633 00:27:39,970 --> 00:27:37,580 welcome aboard that is the case with me 634 00:27:42,100 --> 00:27:39,980 sometimes but fortunately some cases are 635 00:27:44,590 --> 00:27:42,110 very clear and that's those are the ones 636 00:27:50,320 --> 00:27:44,600 we rely on so I think we have to help in